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For 26 years, Rachel Geiser has worked behind the scenes of America's toughest trials. As a criminal defense investigator, she stood with defense teams in cases that made headlines, and many that never did, but changed lives forever. This is the Geiser Files.

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Trump has held this night on the stereo. Place your hands in mine, so very low.

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Okay, we're doing it. Hello and welcome to Geyser Files episode four. Cuatro, as the Spanish friends in the audience would say. Bienvenido a episod cuatro.

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Hello, Tony.

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Hi, Rachel.

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Hola. I know very little Spanish, believe it or not.

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Pequeño.

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I don't have a whole lot of Hispanic clients, believe it or not, in Memphis. That doesn't come up for me very often. I haven't needed the expertise of a translator in a while.

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When I worked with you, I had a couple of Spanish cases, so to speak.

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Spanish speaking?

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Yes. Yes. But they were all witnesses and victims.

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Yes. So what would you do when you were in the field and had to... Well, we should stop for a second.

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Uh-oh.

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Because I don't think our audience knows. What? You worked as a private investigator for a minute, didn't you?

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I did. I thought we did talk about that.

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I don't think we have. Maybe

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we have. Well, briefly, we discussed how bad I was at it because I would get out of the car car at an apartment complex. You could hear all the doors slamming shut and locking.

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I don't think we've talked about this, though. Maybe that was mentioned in a previous episode, but yes. So, Tony, we worked together as private investigators for a period of time, did we not? And when was this? Do you recall?

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I do not recall any dates whatsoever. I'm horrible at dates, but I do know that I worked for you, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54

No, we were a partnership, Tony, like we are now and have been for the over 20 years no you I believe you worked with me it was after you got your degree before you went back to school so it was 2010 2011 I think something like that sure I think

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so I'm horrible at those kinds of

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yeah

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chronologies

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you are a very very smart brilliant man

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wow yes thank you

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but you did have some difficulty sometimes with getting people to talk to you or answer the door, really.

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Yeah. So a big part of the job is getting out there and beating the bushes, so to speak. Right. When I would show up at the kinds of places where you have to do this work.

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Which are people's homes in Memphis. Yes.

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Yeah. They see me coming and one presumes that they think I am a cop. So they all just go back into their homes and lock their doors and do not answer when I knock on it.

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Right. Yes. So we were going into the inner city neighborhoods of Memphis. Quite a bit. Obviously, that's where our witnesses live.

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I still do on

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occasion. When you would show up, people would not come to the door and answer the door, right? And what did I suggest to you?

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Tell me to put on a baseball cap.

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Right. And then what happened?

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Because we all know that cops do not wear baseball caps.

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You just look less formal.

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It's a fine line you got to walk, right? If you're going to get people to talk to you, you don't want to. So I wouldn't wear like suits and ties out into the field because that screams cop. But you got to look semi-official, right?

SPEAKER_02: 3:27

Yeah, you have to look. Yeah, you have to look like you're there for a purpose, but that not there to arrest someone. I think sometimes just putting a hat on, a baseball hat in particular for men, just kind of puts people a little bit more at ease. So, did you get people to answer the door after you put the hat on?

SPEAKER_00: 3:46

On occasion, what would normally happen was they'd see me coming, they wouldn't answer the door. I'd leave a card on the door that says, Anthony Geiser, private investigator, Geiser Investigative Services, which gets a big response, right? People get a private investigator's card on their door and they're like, what the heck is this all about? So I got a lot of callbacks.

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You did? And would they agree to talk to you when they called you back?

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Generally speaking, if I could talk to somebody, I could get them to talk to me.

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Okay. That's good. Because a lot of times when you, we have to leave guards sometimes. You can only go to someone's house so many times. And a lot of times though, when they do call you, when people call you, they don't agree to an interview. It's easier for them to tell you no on a telephone as opposed to in your face when you're standing, you know, at their front door. Or

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they don't show up where they say they're going to. Or they schedule a time for you to come back, and then they're still not there and they don't answer. They

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don't come, right?

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Yeah, which is odd to me. Yeah,

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so it's always best to do the interview, show up unannounced, and have people talk to you then. They're less prepared, and they have less time to flee. I mean, we're not trying to keep people captive in doing interviews. obviously but we do want the opportunity to have people speak with us about the case if they will and it's easier to hang up on you if you call them

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yep and I had a little script I would say that I'm pretty sure I got from you when you start let them know I'm a private investigator I work for so-and-so who is a defendant on this case I'm not a cop I'm not a lawyer you don't have to talk to me and then go into your questions right don't just start asking questions

SPEAKER_02: 5:26

yeah I know honestly I feel like Yeah, I think that the biggest thing is telling people repeatedly. I tell people, you don't have to talk to me. You're doing me a favor by talking to me. You're doing my client a favor by talking to me, good or bad, whatever it is you have to say. I just want to know what it is you saw or heard, what you know about this case. And that almost always, people like to talk. People want to tell you their stories. Look at the billions of podcasts out there. People want to talk about their life and their experiences. With very little exception, I have been very, very successful in having people tell me what they witnessed on cases. And I do know, though, that you had a difficult time. I look less like a cop than you do. Yeah.

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That's another thing. I do have a cop look.

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You do. You're very handsome and, you know, six foot over.

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Six foot two.

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Six foot two, yes. And, yeah, you did give off that vibe. I give off, I think, a social worker vibe what do you think

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yeah

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right um that is to my advantage i think way off topic but i just wanted the audience to know it

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was exactly the topic because you brought it up

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yeah that you you have worked with me during a period of time even on the west memphis three and the jesse dotson case you know that we're going to talk about later to some extent um you worked with me during that time period actually

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i did

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yeah so where did we leave off last time on damian eccles case I

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have no idea. I think

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we left off with after the DNA testing was done and there had been some reports that come back. We continued. We were continuing our investigation. Dennis had argued before the Arkansas Supreme Court and the defendants have been granted an evidentiary hearing.

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That's right.

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Right.

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That's where we left off.

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That's where we left off. So that would have been. What

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is an evidentiary hearing?

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Well, what the Arkansas Supreme Court said and what what we asked for was that all of the new information specifically from the DNA reports and should be considered.

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Considered for what? New

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trial? For a new trial, right? So is it enough? Is there enough new information for a court to consider whether or not the defendant should receive a new trial, basically? Okay. So you're going to have this hearing first.

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It's a trial to see if we're going to get a new

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trial. It's like a mini trial to see if you're going to get an actual trial.

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Very interesting. What are the rules then? There's no jury. It's just the opposing counsel and a judge?

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Yeah, there's no jury.

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No jury. And then you present, we got this new evidence, and then the state responds, and then the judge makes a decision?

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And then the judge decides, right.

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And we were in a pretty strong position for that evidence you're hearing, right?

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I mean, I think so. Yeah, that's my opinion. And I don't think it would have been heard before Judge Burnett, I think he was out of the original judge who had heard the post-conviction hearings and everything else until that point, was not going to be hearing the evidentiary hearing, was not going to be the judge for that hearing or for a new trial for that matter. I

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wish there had been an evidentiary hearing. I think a lot of your work would have really shined, but it worked out well for the client.

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Yes, those are things to consider. It's not about you, right? I think a lot of people obviously have questioned that how you know they got the defendants were granted this hearing you know from the hearing we were gonna most likely we think get i think get a new trial but how long does that take

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right could be years more right

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oh my gosh yeah and

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you've already been on death row for 18 years

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yeah

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so i certainly

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it's easy to sit here right yeah and say oh yeah let's sure let's just wait that out a little bit longer right but i'm not sitting behind bars i think one day if you're innocent sitting behind bars is too much.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Did it require all three of the defendants to sign off on it?

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I believe so. I believe that was what was, all of this is happening behind the scenes, right? So I am not involved in any of the negotiations and what led up to their release for the Alford plea.

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There was a speaking engagement and it was Jason Baldwin was there.

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Okay.

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He was talking and he did not want to take the Alford plea, which we'll talk about that in a second, what that is. But, But he said that he did because they were going to kill Damien.

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Damien's still in death row. And Damien was not in a good physical condition.

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Those are his words. I would have stayed in jail.

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You would have?

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No, me? No, this is what Jason said.

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Oh, right, right, right. Okay. Yeah, I think that, yeah.

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He wanted an exoneration.

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Yeah, I believe Jason has come out and said that. And I think that was obviously going on. So, well, from what I know from my perspective at that time period was, let's flash forward. So we have the evidentiary hearing. And it's not scheduled yet, though. I think there's been a couple of delays. That is not uncommon. I mean, some of my murder clients sit in jail for years before they go to trial. There's constant continuances and delays. That was happening. Behind the scenes, apparently, there were negotiations happening between attorneys for all parties and the prosecutor. And all I know is that I got a text from Lori maybe one or two days before very close in time to their release date of August 19th of 2011 is when they were released and Lori tells me she maybe even called me but I know I got a text first maybe a telephone conversation later that what are you doing on August 19th we want you to be in Jonesboro because something is going to be happening

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did she know

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yeah of course she knew I mean

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but she didn't tell you tell you

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I yes I believe she did tell me but I was you know it was very like don't this is not Not, you know, keep it to yourself, but we want you to be there. So I do remember I had a couple of attorneys. So I think the Commercial Appeal or the news stations had caught wind that something was happening in Jonesboro. And so I do remember people were texting me saying, hey, what's going on? Of course, I'm like, I have no idea. Can't say. But I just remember it's hard for me, and it's really hard for me to tell you exactly everything that played out over the course of those next few days because I think I was so overwhelmed by the emotion of what was about to happen. I mean, you work on these cases for years.

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This never happens,

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right? Well, for me, that was the first time I'd ever had a client released like he was going to be free, right? Like with Clarence Nesbitt, there had been cases. Remember I mentioned him, he was taken off of death row, but he's still in prison. You know, that has happened. But to have a death row client, leave death row and walk out. He didn't walk out of prison. He went to court first and they walked out of court a free man. That was an incredible moment. And it's really hard to put into words. So Lori had said, we want you to be there. There's going to be transportation set up leaving from Peabody or the Madison Hotel downtown that morning. So I showed up. I go and there's these two vans that they had rented. We drive to Jonesboro.

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Big black limo vans, right?

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Yeah, they were. Something like that. Yeah, it was pretty surreal, actually.

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Who's in the van?

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Oh, God, I can't remember everyone that was there. That's what's crazy. You know, I don't really even remember. I still think I was just so, like, overwhelmed by the moment. And we get to Jonesboro. There's so many people there, you know. Because people

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know now, right?

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I don't know if they knew or not, honestly. I mean, people were there, but I don't know if they knew exactly what was going to be. happening? I bet they did. I don't remember. They

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cut in live.

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They did?

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Were you watching it? I was. I was watching it and texting

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you. Okay. Was I texting back? What was I saying?

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Almost not at all.

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Sorry.

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That's okay. Like

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I said, I think I was just so overwhelmed. I cried a little bit. You did? A little bit, yeah. Oh, that's amazing. So we're at court and we're kind of kept, there's a bunch of people there and there's people that are outside the courthouse. There's people that are filing into the courtroom. We are in a separate room, outside the courtroom, but not in court and not with everyone else. I do remember Eddie Vedder was in there. Was he

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in the van with you?

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I don't know if he was in my van or the other van, but I do remember Eddie Vedder was in the room where we were being held before we went into the courtroom. That was really cool, obviously.

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Was that when you sent me that selfie picture of you and Eddie Vedder?

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Yes, he took a photo with me, and so I have this photo with Eddie Vedder, my favorite musician of all time, yes.

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Find that for me, and I'll put it on the website.

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Sure. I definitely still have it. So we're in this room, kind of just all hanging out, you know, waiting to see what's going to happen. We go into the courtroom, everyone, the judge is in there, and then I remember the judge spoke, the three defendants, you know, gave their Alford pleas, all maintaining their innocence.

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Let's talk about what an Alford plea is.

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Yeah, an Alford plea is a plea where you, it's a best interest plea. So you can maintain your innocence. You say, I didn't do this, but I know it's in my best interest to plead guilty to this. And it's used quite often here locally. I'm actually having to have had several clients take Alford pleas.

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That really opened the door for Alford pleas, right?

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I don't know if that case did

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or maybe. You probably know better than me.

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Yeah, you're probably right. I don't know if I had that many Alford pleas before 2011. But it

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seems to me like it's purely a phase. It's a

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case out of normalcy. North Carolina that established that.

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Alford plea? Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is almost purely a face-saving measure for the state.

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Yes, I believe so. Yeah.

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Okay, tell me when I'm wrong. The defendant is pleading guilty, I'm doing air quotes, but is being released while still maintaining his innocence.

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Right. Now, not every Alford plea ends in a release.

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Okay.

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So there are sometimes an Alford plea happens where you are pleading to a lesser sentence, but you're still serving a sentence. But they're still allowed to do an Alford plea. So if someone's indicted on murder, first-degree murder, and they are allowed to do an Alford plea for voluntary manslaughter, they are still, I've had clients who are still allowed

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to say. That's an Alford plea? I thought that was just pleading to a lesser charge.

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Well, you're pleading guilty, but you're also able to say, I'm maintaining my innocence. I've been sitting in jail for my clients in particular. I've been sitting in jail now for three years or longer I've got three years you know served already so if I plead to voluntary manslaughter I might even have a time served sentence or I might have to serve another few months before I'm either you know I'm eligible for parole whatever you know the sentence ends up being on that there's a range obviously so you're still able to do that you know it's still in your best interest because instead of waiting for some date in the future where I'm going to go to trial in this case that I do think that I'm still saying I'm innocent for and maybe I could win that trial, I'm choosing to take this plea, maintain my innocence, and then serve just another few more months or a year or whatever that ends up being. Start

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to put it behind you. It's

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still in their best interest. Right. Right?

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Well, yeah. I mean,

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if I was sitting here with one of my sons and they were facing a charge that they said they were... I think every time I'm talking to a client, I'm thinking, what would I tell my child? Right. And is this in your best interest is, you know, not.

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Do you ever say it like that? Yeah. If you were my son, I would say take this plea.

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Yes. Yes. Yeah.

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That's powerful. Okay. You get to court that day. You're in the Jonesboro courthouse. You're sitting there with Eddie Vedder. They take their Alfred pleas, all three of the defendants?

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They do. Okay. And they all make it very clear they're maintaining their innocence when they do it.

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Okay. What happens next?

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Now it's a whirlwind, really. They leave, right? They leave. Just walk out of jail. They walked out. Well, they walked out of court. So they walked out of court and they got into the vans and

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left Arkansas.

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And left. Yes.

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Okay. Let me sum this up. You told me where I'm wrong. Damien, so dangerous because they are convicted murderers. Damien has to be in solitary confinement on death row. That's how bad he is. And then one day the state says, yeah, okay, we'll give you this offer plea and you can just leave after 18 years. My bad. They don't even say my bad though.

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No. Oh, the judge actually said really nice things, actually. It was a different judge.

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Yeah, but the state of Arkansas just let these boys go after saying...

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Well, they were under... I think they were under supervision. Were they not really real... There were some sort of stipulations on their release for a period of 10 years. Oh, is that right? 10 years, yeah. No, it wasn't just a, you know... Still, though. Yeah. No, I mean, no, I... It galls me. I understand... It makes me angry. I understand the greater point here. So this is a horrific crime somebody committed. Right. And you think you still have three convictions, so you're just going to move on. Mm-hmm. Right? And that's exactly what the state of Arkansas did. Yeah. Right? That is not what we did.

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So they give their offer, please.

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Yes.

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You leave the courthouse. You're walking out of the courthouse. And this is, I think I saw you, because there's cameras. It's live, like I said.

SPEAKER_02: 19:18

Oh, yeah. Maybe there was a, no, you're right. We didn't immediately leave. Was there a press conference, like, at the courthouse?

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You know, I think there was. Was it

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later? I

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think there was.

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There was one at the courthouse. I remember there was a panel press conference where Damien, Jesse. And you were on TV. I stood behind them. Yeah. And that was amazing just to be a part of that group of people. Like when I think about the people that were there, you know, it was obviously Jason's attorneys that I didn't really have a whole lot of contact with throughout the process. But Jesse's attorneys, I did. I had more contact with. And, of course, our attorneys, Steve Braga, Dennis Reardon. and Don Horgan, amazing, amazing people and attorneys to have worked with. I feel very fortunate to have worked with them. And then there were other people, other attorneys that had worked on Jesse's case, in particular Steve Drizzen and Laura Narider, who worked on the false confession, I think, part of Jesse's appeal.

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Yeah, we should do an episode on that confession.

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Yeah, well, I later got to work with Steve and Laura on another case I had in Arkansas for a period of time, and that was amazing, too. So making those kind of connections with just some really awesome, brilliant lawyers.

SPEAKER_00: 20:31

Yeah, I would say, are those Arkansas lawyers?

SPEAKER_02: 20:34

No, no, no, no. At the time, well, when I worked with Steve and Laura, they were working at the Bloom Law Clinic, which was affiliated with Northwestern Law School, and they would take cases, you know, pro bono. They were doing some cases in Arkansas, primarily juvenile cases at the time when I worked with them. Now it's called something else it's called the wrongful conviction center or something and it's in illinois so but there yeah it was great to work with them and then obviously also to just be standing behind your client you know we i was standing behind damien who had for

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years literally this time

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this yeah and as a free as a as a free man yeah you know and just to feel that moment it was just incredible i mean it's really hard to put into words but it's very it's It was just a massive, massive moment.

SPEAKER_00: 21:31

And then, so there's a brief press conference, and then you get in the van.

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We get in the van, and we go back to Memphis.

SPEAKER_00: 21:38

Yeah,

SPEAKER_02: 21:38

so we get back to Memphis. I believe everybody got dropped off at the Madison Hotel. Did I come home, and then we go back downtown? I think we did. Yes. No. I do. I think I do remember this. They were having a get-together that night at the Madison Hotel that we had been invited to. Also had been invited... was Glory Shettles, who had worked as Damien's mitigation specialist for his original trials. And Ron Lacks was invited, if I'm not mistaken.

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Was he there,

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though? He didn't come. Interesting. And now he might have, you know, Ron has since passed away. So this was 2011, and I think Ron passed away in 2013. So I have no idea if he was feeling ill or, you know, but I do, if I'm not mistaken, Ron was also, I mean, I didn't personally invite him, but I think he was, from what Glory had told me. Glory, I think I go home, you're there, and Glory comes over to our house and drove with us downtown, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 22:35

I don't remember that. Yeah,

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I think she came with us. So we went to the Madison Hotel. I mean, can you imagine what Glory, we have to have Glory on at some point, but what Glory must have felt like, you know, just saying and saying hi to Damien, you know, just seeing him out. I mean, she'd never seen him out either. I mean, But she had been longer for her. So we're talking 1993. Yeah. And she, you know, had visited him many times when he was in jail, pre-trial. And, I mean, that is just an incredible. And she obviously can speak to it better than I can. But we did get, you know, several photos with her and Damian and Lori and with the attorneys. And we hung out on the rooftop. And Eddie Vedder and Anna Lee Maines were there. And they sang a

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song.

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We were trying to remember what song it was.

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I know. I can't remember. I

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can't remember. It's just too big of a moment. You can't remember those things. I wish we'd written all this stuff down, right? I

SPEAKER_00: 23:34

wish I'd recorded it.

UNKNOWN: 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:37

That was really cool. I remember we got drinks at the bar in the lobby. Downstairs? Yeah, before we went up.

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Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 23:43

And then the bartenders were talking about it, like, Eddie Vedder's in the hotel. He's on the roof. He's on the roof. Something's going on. And we're sitting there, and then somebody comes to get us.

SPEAKER_02: 23:55

Okay. I don't remember that. I mean, vaguely.

SPEAKER_00: 23:57

Yeah. Yeah. And then going to the roof, and then I see the bartenders, like, their jaws drop a little bit, and I'm like, yeah, we're going upstairs.

SPEAKER_02: 24:07

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00: 24:08

Yeah, and then we get up there. There are two ginormous bouncers in the hallway.

SPEAKER_02: 24:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 24:14

And I think I knew one of them.

SPEAKER_02: 24:16

You probably did.

SPEAKER_00: 24:17

I've been beaten up by a lot of bouncers.

SPEAKER_02: 24:19

Right. Yes. We won't talk about that.

SPEAKER_00: 24:21

But he nodded, and I nodded at him. They checked our name, so I don't know if he knew me or not. Like you said, it's a weird, weird experience. And then we go out there. You had told me before. You're like, just be cool. Eddie Vedder's going to be there. Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, I'll be fine. It's

SPEAKER_02: 24:35

weird, though, right? It's weird.

SPEAKER_00: 24:37

And then I get up there, and I just, like, froze.

SPEAKER_02: 24:40

I know. It's so strange. I'm like,

SPEAKER_00: 24:42

Eddie Vedder's over

SPEAKER_02: 24:43

there. This is, like, musically.

SPEAKER_00: 24:44

You were super cool. You, like, you called me over. Like, Eddie, this is my husband, Tony. Tony, Eddie.

SPEAKER_02: 24:48

Oh, well, I'm good. I'm glad that was very cool and smooth.

SPEAKER_00: 24:52

He's a cool dude.

SPEAKER_02: 24:52

Yeah, very down to earth. I mean, had been funding, you know, helping fund the defense for years. Yeah. We had actually gone to one of his concerts. There was a benefit concert in Little Rock before their release. That's right. And we went to that. And, I mean, and then we just grew up. Our formative music years as a teen, you know, we're listening to Pearl Jam. Right. Right? I mean, this was our jam. And I don't say jam that much, you guys. But, I mean, seriously, when you talk about Pearl Jam, it's the jam, right? Yeah, it was neat. It was amazing. Being a part of that and being up there and, you know, having Damien I'm sure I can't even imagine what Damien or the Dick Jason or Jesse wasn't there though

SPEAKER_00: 25:34

he was not

SPEAKER_02: 25:35

he was not there

SPEAKER_00: 25:36

he was not on the vans either

SPEAKER_02: 25:37

oh did he go home with his family maybe yeah he went back to I actually ran into Jesse once

SPEAKER_00: 25:43

you told me this

SPEAKER_02: 25:44

yeah it was many years ago now I was in when we lived in Midtown the Walmart to shop at was in West Memphis Arkansas it's the closest one so I was over there shopping one day and I think it was a Sunday and And Jesse Miskelley was in there. And I said hello. How did he look? He looked fine. Yeah. Did he know who you were? I mean, that was like many years ago. No, I had no idea who I was. So I don't even know if I told him, hey, I was that investigator that worked on the case. I think I just said, hey, Jesse Miskelley. And I said, how are you? And he said, I'm fine. He had no idea who I was. No. But, yeah, it's the only time I've seen him, though. Not that, I mean, and I don't really go to West Memphis that often anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 26:24

Yeah, so we sat there and we drank a bunch of beers. and hung out with Natalie Maines and Eddie Vedder and Damian and Lori. Anyway, it was a big night. A lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02: 26:35

It was. It really was. I don't

SPEAKER_00: 26:37

remember how it ended. Maybe it never did.

SPEAKER_02: 26:39

The next day, no, I don't actually remember either. I mean, we left, obviously. And the next day, that is when Amy Berg was coming over with her crew to do a little filming for West of Memphis. That was the next day.

SPEAKER_00: 26:53

That was the very next day? It was. Holy cow.

SPEAKER_02: 26:55

Yes. I think I looked a little too puffy.

SPEAKER_00: 26:57

You were a little puffy. I was a little

SPEAKER_02: 26:59

puffy that day. Yeah. So the next day, yes, Amy Berg, they're filming West of Memphis. She had, I don't even remember how long at this point Amy had started filming West of Memphis and had been in Memphis.

SPEAKER_00: 27:11

I did a lot of work for Amy.

SPEAKER_02: 27:13

You did?

SPEAKER_00: 27:13

Yes. You were busy. So Amy would need reports and stuff like that. And you introduced me to her via email and or text. And she would tell me what she needed.

SPEAKER_02: 27:26

Oh, for the documentary?

SPEAKER_00: 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 27:27

Oh, as far as the investigation. Yeah. Yeah, you would see a lot of my reports that look like my reports flashing up on the screen during West of Memphis for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 27:36

I was a huge part of that.

SPEAKER_02: 27:37

You really were. But so the next, the day after the release, they come over to the house and we did it on the front porch, right? Filming for the documentary is weird to me, you know, because I kind of feel like, well, I'm not used to, and even sometimes this podcast is weird to me because you're asking me questions. Yeah. I am usually the one who asks questions, right, of people. That's what I've been doing for the past 26 years. So being asked questions is still something that is new to me. For the documentary, you know, they would ask me questions and then there were other times they came for filming and I would have to act like I was doing my work, right, not really doing my work. So it was all very bizarre to me, like being filmed for a documentary where I'm acting like the investigator and redoing things. I remember one time they had me walk in and out of FedEx. I guess because I would send off some of the DNA stuff. That's not in the documentary, I think. But I just remember that was kind of weird and now hilarious. We get coming in and out of a

SPEAKER_00: 28:49

FedEx store. Yeah, it's weird to see how the sausage gets made. I helped them set up on the front porch.

SPEAKER_02: 28:54

You did. You had some experience with that because you majored in communications in it. done things.

SPEAKER_00: 28:58

Yeah, communications with a concentration in film and video production.

SPEAKER_02: 29:01

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:03

Anyway, I remember we had this, I had been meaning to fix this for years, but we had this telephone cord, right, where the telephone service came into our house. It was pinned up on the side of the

SPEAKER_02: 29:15

porch. Yes, I remember this.

SPEAKER_00: 29:16

And it was hanging down.

SPEAKER_02: 29:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 29:18

And I asked Amy, I'm like, you want me to, you want me to go, because I think you'd already started filming.

SPEAKER_02: 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:22

I was like, let me go fix that cord for you.

SPEAKER_02: 29:23

You don't want that cord hanging down, now.

SPEAKER_00: 29:25

And she's like, no, I want it.

SPEAKER_02: 29:27

She wants the cord hanging down.

SPEAKER_00: 29:28

She wanted the cord. She wanted us to look like...

SPEAKER_02: 29:31

The cord would be hanging down on our porch.

SPEAKER_00: 29:34

Yeah. She wanted us... Thanks,

SPEAKER_02: 29:34

Amy. Yeah. No, that's just natural. That's what the porch looked like, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 29:39

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 29:40

Yeah. You're like, I really want to move that cord. I

SPEAKER_00: 29:43

did.

SPEAKER_02: 29:44

You should have done it in advance, Tony. You should have scoped out the place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:47

I had no idea where they were going to do it.

SPEAKER_02: 29:49

Yeah. I had no idea either,

SPEAKER_00: 29:50

honestly. It was a hot

SPEAKER_02: 29:51

day, too. But yeah, I remember there was a couple of times we would be filming on other days, and I would be driving... Like the driving shots, I think are so funny. Cause I literally, I mean, I'm not fake driving. We're really, we are driving, but you know, we're driving across the bridge and I don't know that the camera guy, I wish I could remember their names cause they were super cool. Um, would it be asking me questions and I would, you know, have to talk while I'm driving and, but you know, I'm not really working. I'm not, I'm just driving across this bridge. Right. So the only time though that I did, the only time I felt very comfortable in the filming of the documentary was when I was actually doing my job. There was at the very end, I think they were even in the editing stages of West of Memphis when, you know, they had the West, the fund, the West Memphis Three Group, whoever, the defense attorneys had set up a tip line in like, I think, 2009. And I did not handle the tip line. Another investigator out of New York, they brought in who had worked with Steve, I think on the Marty Tankleff case, I think. J Salpeter he was handling the tip line and so every once in a while a tip would come in after their release even and I was I don't know just in Memphis and I got a call like hey can I get to the other side of Arkansas to do some work some tips that come in they want you to follow up on it so I'm like sure so I go to you know the other east Arkansas I'm sorry west Arkansas to do some interviews and then a film crew shows up and they're with me and so some of the interviews at the end of west of memphis that are done are actually me you know speaking doing the interview and that was really the only time yeah that i felt like

SPEAKER_00: 31:39

anything cool come out of the tip line

SPEAKER_02: 31:42

uh yeah oh well you know other some things that i don't know if it's cool or not but there are some things that came from the tip line that ended up i think in some of the filings i don't know how many tips they got like i said i didn't run the tip line i would just get a call or and it might be other invest investigators got other calls I have you know there's other people working on this case but every once in a while I would get a call and they would say you know can you follow up on this on this tip and so I would go do that but on that one occasion I did it with the film crew because I think like Amy might have even been in New Zealand and with Lori and Damien I think we're over there too because they were finishing up the editing on West of Memphis Amy couldn't be there to do it and so I had to actually do the interview and then they wanted it filmed so we had to film me doing the but you don't see me on camera I'm behind the scenes which just felt much more natural

SPEAKER_00: 32:33

to me that's really cool

SPEAKER_02: 32:36

okay so that so that was the story of their release and our experience with that you know I like I said before I've got one other client who's on death row Jesse Dotson and that's the case we're going to talk to a little bit but about what I can I mean his case is still in federal court. He's in federal court now. We'll talk about what I can't talk about. I can only imagine, you know, working on another case. I mean, I just feel very fortunate that I've had to gotten to experience working on a case where a client was actually freed from death row. You know, I really, honestly, I really hope that is the case for Jesse Dotson at some point too. Wow. I really want to bring more light to his case if we can and see him walk out of prison someday too. But it was an amazing experience.

SPEAKER_00: 33:27

It It really was.

SPEAKER_02: 33:27

Yeah, and I'm glad I got to share it with you.

SPEAKER_00: 33:29

Yeah, it was really cool being able to see it up close like that. A little bit of behind the scenes stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 33:33

Yeah. And so next time we are going to talk, I think this is going to be one of the last episodes we do where we talk exclusively about, you know, our experience with Damien's case because there's still stuff going on, right? I mean, that day was not the last day I did anything on Damien's case. The next episode we'll be talking about one moment in my 26 year career That is one top three moment. Top three. Top three.

SPEAKER_00: 34:02

Okay. Episode five. Top three moment in Rachel's career. I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:07

Hands down. Hands down.

SPEAKER_00: 34:08

Don't tell me what it is between now and then. I want to be surprised.

SPEAKER_02: 34:11

Okay. Well, we won't talk about it then. Okay. Until next time.

SPEAKER_00: 34:15

Until next time. Love you, Manit.

SPEAKER_02: 34:17

Love you, Manit.

SPEAKER_00: 34:18

Bye.